Mk1 Coaches

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Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:53 am

Hi,

To complete the Mk 2 formations under construction by David Faulkner, we will need an assortment of Mk 1s.

These include various BGs (Bachmann-based), four restaurant vehicles (three Southern pride plus one Bachmann), an SLCT and an FO (both Southern Pride). I'm starting with the Southern Pride vehicles since they are the most complex to do.

I'm a bit rusty with loco-hauled passenger stock - it must be over a decade since my last build - but if anyone would like to see what I'm up to then I can post some thoughts and images.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby iak » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:05 am

The production was certainly going last night mon..... 8-)
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Bill Wilson » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:22 am

Hi Richard,
I would be interested in following what is happening on the coaching stock for Mostyn as GQS will need various MKI and MKII formations (with some MKIII's thrown in for good measure!) Please post away :drool
Regards,
Bill.
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Raphael » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:39 pm

Me too please.

I'd be interested to see how the Southern Pride ones go together. I know the Bachmann Mk1s are getting on a bit now but I feel they have lots to improve upon - ride heights, brake blocks moulded on the bogie frames miles from the wheel treads, useful but troublesome cam coupling system, and the dastardly roof ribs amongst the most obvious. The construction also means where the ends meet the sides can be a bit crappy!
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:49 pm

Hi,

Bill/Raphael - No problem, I'll start posting some basic thoughts and images asap.

As a bit of background, Mostyn already has an extensive fleet of passenger Mk1s based on Southern Pride kits (screen-printed plastic sides) which were built just before the Bachmann Mk1s were launched. The current project is to provide the rest of the passenger Mk1s plus Mk1 BGs to complete the new Mk2 and Mk2/3 rakes plus a couple more BGs for the parcels formations.

The BGs will all be Bachmann
There are two RMBs - one Bachmann and one Southern Pride
There are two RB/RBRs - both Southern Pride
There is one FO - Southern Pride
There is one SLCT - Southern Pride

The Southern Pride kits are based on etched brass sides on their standard plastic kit bodies. They are a somewhat more complex proposition than modifying Bachmann vehicles so I will be starting with them first. I dont want to 're-invent the wheel' so all the good points of the first Southern Pride MK1 build will be repeated. Equally well, I dont want to repeat any of the faults with the first build so what were they?

- some vehicles exhibit a degree of lengthways warping (= centres of vehicles slightly up and ends slightly down). It's not universal and plenty of vehicles are absolutely fine but I'd like to go that extra mile to eliminate the potential for warping during construction of the new coaches.

- some of the coach compensation units were soldered together with what has proven to be excessive side-play (= slop)

- the original Alan Gibson wheelsets proved unreliable given the high speed intensive use the formations get at exhibitions

More to come...

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:04 am

Hi,

I've hit an immediate BIG snag with the first of the Southern Pride kits - the Sleeper SLCT.

In my opinion the bodyside brass etches are very wrong with the windows on the compartment side obviously the wrong size and the window positioning on the corridor side having no relationship to the prototype.

I'm putting a stop on the rest of the Southern Pride build as well until their sides are carefully checked.

Mr Comet may well be getting a call for replacement brass sides................................

As regards my feelings about Southern Pride kits:-
:o at first
:( followed
:x now
:axe: later

What a b*mmer!

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby jdfaulkner » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:07 pm

I've got some Tri-ang ones...

Seriously though, this is a big disappointment bearing in mind that the models had been out for a while when we bought them giving plenty of time for correcting the error. The Comet version looks right though on the corridor side

Image

Dave :)
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:45 pm

Hi Dave,

I've now looked carefully at the Southern Pride etched sides for the RB/RBR and I'm not happy with them either. It seems pointless you going to hours of work creating accurate Mark 2 vehicles if we're going to couple them to iffy Mark 1s.

I am somewhat hacked off (as you can well imagine).

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby iak » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:17 am

To use a well known ecclesiastical term - "erse!!" :axe:
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


The only person who doesn't make mistakes is God and since he does not exist....


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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby jdfaulkner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:20 am

And I discovered something else last night. A few years back I bought one each of the Metro-Cammell 1957 Mk1 prototypes (FK and SK) from Southern Pride for use at some point in the future. Following the issue with the SLCT, I decided to look at these and shock-horror, the sides (of the FK) do not seem to look much like that of the prototype pictured in Parkin's Mk1 coach book; the windows on the Southern Pride appear far too big and, for instance, there is no way that bodyside lining could go above the windows!
:axe: :axe:
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Tim » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:00 pm

Richard Oldfield wrote:Hi Dave,

I've now looked carefully at the Southern Pride etched sides for the RB/RBR and I'm not happy with them either. It seems pointless you going to hours of work creating accurate Mark 2 vehicles if we're going to couple them to iffy Mark 1s.

I am somewhat hacked off (as you can well imagine).

Cheers,

Richard


Hi Richard,

If you're going to go for a decent (not to mention accurate) RB/RBR, I'd get the erstwhile Mainline/Replica model and replace the glazing with that from a Bachmann RU - I've done one myself and it does bring the model up in terms of quality. That or take an RU and totally rebuild the thing from scratch. I'll have to go and have a delve elsewhere and see what I can find thread-wise.......

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Raphael » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:29 pm

Sorry about that. All sounds very familiar. I had a ecclesiastical moment when I measured the windows on the etched sides of a MARC models 4COR: WRONG!

That Mainline Buffey [sic] was an amazing thing back in the day. Had its faults of course but I think it was the first RTR coach with any tiny printed lettering on the solebars and ends?
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:34 am

Hi,

Faced with the poor and (in my opinion) unusable SLCT and RB/RBR Southern Pride etched brass sides, I've lost confidence in the product and decided to have a closer look at the other coach etches we have in stock. The RMB also falls into the 'scrap brass' category - the toilet windows are not equidistant from the ends (as they should be) and the doors and associated windows at the other end are too far away from the end of the vehicle. There may be other faults but I gave up looking for them. The FO looked more promising - windows and door positions seem about right - but then eagle-eyed Dave Faulkner spotted that the two toilet windows had been etched on the wrong side of the vehicle. It is true that you can correct the FO problem with some quick careful work but, if the manufacturer hasn't noticed or cannot be bothered to correct the problem, then what else might we be missing?

I've learnt my lesson. :( :x

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:11 am

At one point the southern pride bogie centres were set too close together although I believe this has beef fixed. The other thing that stands out to me with them is that they are a bit narrow at the bottom making them look a bit wedgy. If you do go for them the stick on window frames are a big improvement

Hth

Jim
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Clive » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:20 am

As you only need the one sleeper, what about using the Tri-ang sides as a basis. All windows in the right place, and correct profile.
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby jdfaulkner » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:27 am

Clive,

No need, I've already had a search through my stash of oddments and found a set of Comet sleeper sides that will fir the bill. 8-) :P

Ta
David
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 am

Hi Clive,

Clive wrote:As you only need the one sleeper, what about using the Tri-ang sides as a basis. All windows in the right place, and correct profile.


As David has said, he's unearthed a pair of Comet sides but, failing that, your suggestion , surprisingly given the longevity of the model, would have been 'on the mark' provided someone with more time then sense (That'll be me then :D ) fancied the flush-glazing challenge.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:45 pm

Hi,

An image which will hopefully make it easier to understand the difference in accuracy between two sets of etched brass coach sides which are supposedly the same vehicle.

They are both unmodified and straight out of the packet/box.

One is from Southern Pride and one is from Comet. Which do you prefer?

Image

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Clive » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:39 pm

Hi Richard

The bottom one looks quite a bit like the BR diagram, and the photos in the Parkin book. Could be very wrong knowing me.

Clive

PS the Tri-ang one looks the same as the bottom one.
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby jdfaulkner » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:49 pm

I think this one might be the dud!
:lol: ;)
Image
I'll find my own way home then... :face:
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby iak » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:03 pm

Naughty........... :lol: :lol: :shock:
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


The only person who doesn't make mistakes is God and since he does not exist....


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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby flubrush » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:06 pm

I would go for the bottom one as well. I travelled on them often enough way back when and I noted that you had to get two bunk beds and a bulkhead between the window pairs and I doubt if the beds in the upper one would be all that wide. :D

Jim.
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Davef » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:38 pm

jdfaulkner wrote:I think this one might be the dud!
:lol: ;)
Image
I'll find my own way home then... :face:


That'll be for the new sleeper service from 'Ryanair' then. :o

Dave Franks.
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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby iak » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:58 pm

Shhhoosh Man
Ye'll be giving Mr Ryan Air ideas............. :o
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


The only person who doesn't make mistakes is God and since he does not exist....


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Re: Mk1 Coaches

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:20 pm

Hi,

Richard Oldfield wrote:Hi,

An image which will hopefully make it easier to understand the difference in accuracy between two sets of etched brass coach sides which are supposedly the same vehicle.

They are both unmodified and straight out of the packet/box.

One is from Southern Pride and one is from Comet. Which do you prefer?

Image


The upper etch is Southern Pride. The lower etch is by Comet. Like everyone else who replied, my preference is for the Comet etch. The Southern Pride etch bears scant resemblance to the prototype - the windows are very wrongly proportioned. Interestingly, anyone who is also a member of Robert Carroll's excellent BR coaching stock e-group, will know that someone has leapt to the defence of the Southern pride etches. This should be good........... :axe:

Cheers,

Richard
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