LED lighting

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LED lighting

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:39 pm

Hi,

Does anyone here on Fred have experience with the use of LED lighting for layouts?

Mostyn currently uses 12volt 50watt dichroic bulbs with a 60 degree flood. These were chosen for their wider cover (if I remember rightly the 20watt dichroics only went up to 38 degrees) and to avoid the use of mains voltages within the grasp of the public. Please note that this decision was taken 10 years ago and was based on our understanding of lighting technology at that time.

The introduction of higher curved backscenes (see the Beeg Blue Beastie thread) means that the lighting rigs need to be re-positioned and that the lighting needs to cover a bigger footprint. Gavin has suggested that we consider 12volt LED lighting as the price differential of compatible bulbs has dropped over the last few years and they can have a 120degree flood. This might eliminate the need to add more bulbs (to cover the greater area) and enable us to remove some of the transformers from the lighting beams (at present every two 50watt bulbs require a 105watt transformer whereas the same transformer can supply a lot more 4 or 6 watt LED bulbs).

If anyone wants to share any tips or hints before we 'dip our toes in the water' then we would appreciate it.

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: LED lighting

Postby iak » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:23 pm

The ones in my "In Laws" new house extension provide excellent light Richard. I think they are the daylight temperature ones.

I venture to sugest they are they forward as they do not "cook" the operator.

The whole concept of LED lighting is moving on all the time so costing seems pretty fluid.

8-) ;) 8-)
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:41 pm

Hi Iain,

Gavin's suggestion was prompted by his visit to an acquaintance whose smart refurbished house included a veritable galaxy of dichroic ceiling lights. The guy was reeling from the receipt of his last electricity bill and that set Gavin's brain in motion as regards solutions.

We're probably going to buy some LED bulbs and chuff with them in the absence of any firm guidance.......

Hope all is well in Padgate.

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Wally » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:36 pm

Speak to your local electrical wholesaler as you can now get direct replacement L E D units to fit in the down lighter fittings, this may mean a slight reworking of the wiring, but remember that any system working at 50 volts or less is exempt from P A T testing requirements.

Wally
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Richard Oldfield » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:58 pm

Hi Wally,

Wally wrote:Speak to your local electrical wholesaler as you can now get direct replacement L E D units to fit in the down lighter fittings, this may mean a slight reworking of the wiring, but remember that any system working at 50 volts or less is exempt from P A T testing requirements.


Thanks for your reply. Just picking up on your comment about PAT testing. I've never really thought about whether we need to be getting any part of our layout or ancillary equipment PAT tested. Am I missing something?

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Clive » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:47 pm

Hi Richard

At some shows I have had to have my electrical equipment tested, the show own people have tested it. Warley was one I that springs to mind, I was manning the DEMU demo stand.

Clive

PS If I have Andi Dell helping he normally finds something he would not pass if he was PAT testing it. Luckly he gets my tools out and fixes it.
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Re: LED lighting

Postby jdfaulkner » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:54 pm

Richard Oldfield wrote:Hi Wally,

Thanks for your reply. Just picking up on your comment about PAT testing. I've never really thought about whether we need to be getting any part of our layout or ancillary equipment PAT tested. Am I missing something?

Cheers,
Richard

Hi Richard,

Not really. Whenever we’ve been to shows that demand things be tested before connecting up and switching on, the show organisers sort out the PAT testing, else satisfy them some other way that our electrical installation is safe. Once they see how BMRG goes about things we’ve never had an issue.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Wally » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:20 pm

Didn't really want to open this can of worms but I did post a note on another forum regarding the fact that H S E have reissued a simplified guide to P A T testing which you can either read or download in PDF format if you visit their website.

Basically all that is testable is mains circuitry and equipment with the proviso that if your power units are double insulated (check if the earth pin on the plug is plastic not metal if so it is) they are exempt. This means that if the power unit is floor standing and all circuits to and on the layout run at 50v or less you have no need to worry.

Wally
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Davef » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:03 pm

Hi, I'm about to invest in lighting for the railway and wondered what if anything has happened regarding LED lighting?

Regards,
Dave Franks
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Re: LED lighting

Postby metro » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:27 am

I am using the ikea ledberge led lights on my On30 layout but i found that with any lighting you need to have a cover to stop the room lights giving shadows
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Re: LED lighting

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:24 am

Hi Dave,

Davef wrote:Hi, I'm about to invest in lighting for the railway and wondered what if anything has happened regarding LED lighting?


We have done a bit of investigation based on our original (over-optimistic) thought it should be possible to buy relatively cheap LED units (say about £3.00 each) which could use our existing lampholders. This would give us improved lighting more safely and lower power consumption. The plan was to do this at the same time as we re-jigged the lighting gantries to reflect the bigger footprint of Mostyn (following the addition of the new backscenes.

We have been advised to avoid cheap LED lights and should budget more in terms of £12 per unit plus face the extra cost of having to buy new lampholders. This is a potentially large outlay with perhaps 36 LED lights required. It seems sensible to get some equipment to experiment with. This has not yet happened - the task of building and finishing the new backscenes, buildings, control panel etc is absorbing all our energies.

In my opinion LED lighting is still the right way to go but it's not yet at the top of our priorities.

Cheers,
Richard
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