Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

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Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:54 pm

Hi,

From the collection of David Goodwin but taken by someone else. It is not captioned nor dated but believed to be early 1970s.

Probably London Midland Region, first coach ? ex-LMS period 1, then Fruit D, then ?, then ? 2 x high density DMU centre trailers. Anyone care to add their opinions?

Cheers,

Richard

Image

Image
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Davidb » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:12 pm

No idea what but is it at the NRM in York?
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Trevor Hale » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:36 pm

Location is Tyseley, date I'd possibly put it at around 1975-8.

Apart from that, can't help any further, sorry.

Trevor.
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Clive » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:01 pm

From the bright red colour they are painted I would guess at stores and/or riding coaches for a breakdown train. Other departmental coaches in the seventies would be in that drab green. Any Gulf Red stock not repainted was a very faded pink colour by the mid seventies. At most depots the breakdown train would be a couple of coaches with a van for carrying the packing. The DMU cars are just possibly stabled out the way while their power coaches are under repair.

As for the coach in the middle, with that bow I think it is a early Tri-ang model :D :D :D
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby chrisf » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:21 am

The nearest vehicle looks like Period 1 LMS as modelled by Palitoy 40-odd years ago and still around.

Chris
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Dave Millward » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:12 pm

Rich,

The Bescot tool vans contained a fruit D ADB975163 ex W92012 in the 70s, according to the Dept Coaching Stock booklets.

See you tomorrow

Dave
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Trevor Hale » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:59 pm

Bescot breakdown train at Sandy Lane on 1st June 1974, doubt it helps though.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_1gAO9VN4RMg/Rq0 ... DT+674.jpg
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Dave Millward » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:56 pm

Hello Trevor,

The furthest vehicle resembles a blue fruit D whilst the furthest red coach has a large aperture which matches the one in the mystery pic. It could easily be the same consist in different order.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Where and what is this?

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:22 am

Trevor Hale wrote:Bescot breakdown train at Sandy Lane on 1st June 1974, doubt it helps though.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_1gAO9VN4RMg/Rq0 ... DT+674.jpg


Hi Trevor,

Thank you - this is helpful as it shows a breakdown crane and support coaches formation on the LMR. I want to re-create the Chester formation as it would have been in the late 1970s for Mostyn.

Here are some images, courtesy of John Dixon, showing the Chester formation in action at Mold Jcn in 1978.

Image

Image

The plan is to identify the prototype coaches and then decide how best to model them.

Cheers,

Richard
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Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:40 pm

Hi,

Chatting over these breakdown crane support coaches with Tim last night led to a conclusion that the rearmost coach in the Mold Jcn image is an ex-LMS Period 1 BCK. Looking through my earliest Platform 5 Departmental Coaching Stock Book has yielded the following candidate:-

ADM 395754 BTU Staff Coach - formerly LMS Period 1 BCK M6650M to Diagram 1755 on Lot 208 built at Wolverton in 1926 - converted in 1961.

Does anyone feel brave enough to identify the origins of the two?

The likely candidates are:-

KDM 395377 S&T Tool Van – formerly LMS Period I TO M7785M to diagram 1353 on Lot 1 built at Derby 1924 - converted in 1959.
KDM 395767 S&T Tool Van – formerly LMS Period I BTK M5291M to diagram 1696 on Lot 148 built at Derby 1926 - converted in 1962.
KDM 395844 S&T Tool Van – formerly LMS Period I BTO M9844M to diagram 1693 on Lot 303 built at Wolverton 1927 - converted in 1965.

The centre coach has roof vents whereas the rearmost does not - is that a clue?

Cheers,

Richard

PS - Note change of title for this topic
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Trevor Hale » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:41 pm

Hi,

Couple more links, not able to identify particular vehicles, but thought I'd forward them.

Trevor.

24091 Holyhead 76
http://www.derbysulzers.com/24091holyhead76.jpg

24036 Chester (2nd shot)
http://www.2d53.co.uk/chester/Chester%20No%204.htm
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:30 pm

Hi Trevor,

That's a nice find from the derbysulzer site that I've overlooked. The 2d53 site is a joy to explore and let's hope that Dave Plimmer continues to add to it.

Both 24.036 and 24.091 survived until Autumn 1977 so we justify building them as well for our summer 1977 Mostyn setting.

Thanks,

Richard
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Clive » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:03 pm

I founsd this photo of ADM395758

http://www.departmentals.com/photo/395758a

There is another photo that is supposed to be the same coach on the Departments site but I am not sure it is.
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Tim » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:52 pm

Following on from Clive's link, this pic: http://www.departmentals.com/photo/395753-1 might give some idea as to what the former compartment side would look like (it's only one number adrift).

Converted 1961 eh, I wonder if I can get away with a brand new conversion for my layout or not....... :twisted:

Tim
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:28 pm

Hi Tim and Clive,

Thanks for the links - it's all adding to the project :)

Here's another ex-LMS coach that will form part of the departmental coaching stock build for Mostyn. Taken at Chester in the mid-1970s and from the collection of David Goodwin:-

It's DM395799 together with an SPV fish van (possibly 87518 0r 87818) in departmental use. What are the origins of the coach?

Image

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby iak » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:00 pm

Oooooo now that looks pretty much unaltered Richard.
A look in the oracle beckons..... 8-)
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:24 pm

Hi Iain,

Having found my Departmental Coaching Stock book from 1984 again, I can confirm that DM395799 is listed as a CCE Staff & Dormitory Coach for Ballast Cleaner DR76207. Converted in 1962 from LMS Period 1 TK M1451M built to Diagram 1695 on Lot 388 at Wolverton in 1928.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby iak » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:40 pm

AHHHHH 8-)
I can see a cross - kitting opportunity here.
Sides from 247 Developments
Underframe, ends and roof from 5522
Castings??? 247 or 5522
Bogies??? - We'd need to check what was what.
No corridor connections either which is handy...
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby stuartfwlr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:41 pm

i dont know if this will be much use to those who require the information but if you have a look at flikr, there is a group called Departmental coaching stock.

in that section there are around 300 pics and a few might be what you are looking for.

stuart
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:41 am

stuartfwlr wrote:i dont know if this will be much use to those who require the information but if you have a look at flikr, there is a group called Departmental coaching stock.

in that section there are around 300 pics and a few might be what you are looking for.

stuart


Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the tip - we already use departmentals.com for modelling inspiration. Hope everything is going well for you at Uni. Watch this space for updates about a return of Mostyn to Scotland.................

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Tim » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:50 am

While on the subject of ex LMS breakdown coaches, does anyone have any info on the identity of the 50ft Period 1 BG that was the Mold Junction van at all please? Standard twin sliding door arrangement as per the ones above in this thread.

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Stanier6256 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:18 pm

iak wrote:AHHHHH 8-)
I can see a cross - kitting opportunity here.
Sides from 247 Developments
Underframe, ends and roof from 5522
Castings??? 247 or 5522
Bogies??? - We'd need to check what was what.
No corridor connections either which is handy...


I could do everything except the sides. Compensated etched bogies ideal for P4 are available as well. I could of course get the sides from Comet or 247 and make up a complete kit. Rather a boring vehicle though; here in Scotland we had a wonderful collection of ex G&SW 6 wheelers and ex HR bogie vans on these trains. I do a very nice G&SW Manson full brake one of the type with roof lights. Some of the old G&SW thirds got adapted as well and I have a kit for that one too.

Alistair W
'5522' Models
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby iak » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:16 pm

I'll expect we 'll be in touch Alistair.
The digging about we do will no doubt get more stuff to go on soon.

Thanks again 8-)
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:51 pm

Tim wrote:While on the subject of ex LMS breakdown coaches, does anyone have any info on the identity of the 50ft Period 1 BG that was the Mold Junction van at all please? Standard twin sliding door arrangement as per the ones above in this thread.

Cheers,
Tim


Hi Tim,

I had a look today but no joy I'm afraid - my earliest list of departmental coaching stock is 1984 and there was only one coach based on an ex-LMS period 1 BG still in use then and that was an OHLM vehicle.

As a general question, would anyone know if earlier lists than 1984 exist and where you would find them?

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Breakdown Train Support Coaches (ex-LMS)

Postby stuartfwlr » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:24 pm

hi ,

found this picture,it might be of interest to you.

link; http://www.flickr.com/photos/35138806@N ... 7909545510

stuart
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