Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:11 pm

Dear All,

I thought I'd share with you a little project that I'm toying with at the moment. Inspired by a photograph showing Diagram 1/490 Bogie Plate wagons carrying aluminium ingots eastwards at Llandudno Junction (see http://www.2d53.co.uk/llandudnojcn/freight.htm - 4th image down), I thought it would make an interesting addition to the Mostyn fleet and bought one of the newish Cambrian Kits to see whether it could form the basis of a larger batch build.

I suppose the Mostyn crew count as experienced builders of Cambrian Kits. There are 48 finished Cambrian wagons in our fleet including Walrus, Starfish, Catfish, Dogfish, Mermaid, Shark and Salmon examples and there are a further 12 vehicles at various stages of completion. I wouldn't describe any of these kits as being straightforward with poor fit and brittle plastic being a common theme. Cambrian do, however, fill important gaps especially in the departmental wagon fleet so we have persevered with them.

Our experience with the Salmons had also been problematic due to excessive warping of some of the bodies post-assembly. Some vehicles had become severely banana-shaped (upwards at the ends and flat in the middle) neccessitating major re-working to insert hollow square brass section inside each solebar which was then araldited in place and held flat in a jig whilst drying. At least two wagons benefited from rigid loads to which the wagon was effectively secured and held straight. I cannot discount the possibility that something went wrong with the initial construction or subsequent storage but it's odd that roughly half the wagons stayed flat and half needed varying degrees of coercion.

So, it was with a degree of concern that I opened the bag and formed initial impressions which were not particularly good. Perhaps I've been spoilt by recent launches from Parkside Dundas and Chivers but this kit seemed a step backwards. The mouldings lacked crisp definition and here again was the familiar plastic which I find difficult to slice and work.

More to follow.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Neil » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:35 pm

I suppose it's some comfort to know that I'm not the only one to struggle with Cambrian kits. As well as the poor fit and brittle plastic I find the use of black plastic for everything a bit of a bind; it seems so much easier to build wagon bodies moulded in grey or bauxite and as I always paint every bit the chassis in grey would be a bonus too.

Whinge over, pray continue.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:52 pm

Dear all,

Neil is quite right in remarking on the use of black as the colour for all underframes on Cambrian Kits - it makes it difficult to immediately identify faults (compared with the brown and light grey polymer mixes that are used for body components).

Anyhow, having opened the bag, let's establish a plan of attack.

It seemed sensible, to me at least :) , to first assemble the floor plus solebars and then add some rigidity in the form of 3mm x 1mm brass 'C' section. Having examined the moulded floor - consisting of 3 parts, I thought it would be a good idea to improve the appearance of the 12 securing loops that were set into the floor so the moulded representations were cut out of the floor pieces before gluing the assembly together.

Upon offering the assembled floor up to the solebars it became immediately apparent that there was a discrepancy in length - the ends of the solebars overlapped the floor by slightly more than 0.5mm at each end. Which was correct? The Boplate E should be 52ft (208mm at 4mm:1ft) over headstocks and this length was achieved by adding plastic strips 0.50mm x 0.75mm (on edge at each end before adding the headstocks). The reinforcing brass 'C' section was finally superglued then araldited in place immediately behind the solebars and the whole assembly was weighted down and left to thoroughly dry.

The buffer housings failed to excite me and I carved them out using a sharp chisel with the intention of replacing them with better whitemetal components (an opportunity to use some of the new Dave Franks buffer collection available via Nairnshire Model Supplies). Holding the headstocks firmly, in order to carry out this operation, resulted in damage to most of the brittle headstock end strengthening ribs and neccessitated repairs to most of them.

Enough for tonight.

Cheers,

Richard

ps Please note that I am writing this as I go along - the model is not complete so there is a risk that I might hit a definitive obstacle along the way. You have been warned !
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:57 am

Moving on with the next steps.......

Having cut out the model's representation of the securing loops as lacking definition, it is now necessary to replace the floor and loops. New floor pieces (4mm x 3mm x 0.5mm plastic strip were glued into the slots which I had previously hacked out - they rest partly on the solebar and partly on the brass strengthening section dicussed earlier. Leave to dry.

Strengthen the headstock/floor joint by gluing a 16mm x 4mm x 1mm plastic strip centrally about the drawbar pocket - this not only adds strength but will also act as a flat surface to which the tail of the drawhook will be araldited.

Remove the moulded door banger representations - it's easy to make better versions from nickel silver strip.

The outermost vertical trussing legs are slightly proud of the longitudinal trussing beams on the prototype and this can be emphasised by adding 10mm x 2mm x 0.25mm plastic strip on top of each trussing leg. File to create the precise length and angle when dry.

The chain securing loops are formed from 0.35mm diameter copper wire. Twist this round a 1.7mm dia. drill to form a single loop and tail. Trim tail to leave short locating stub. Then drill a 0.7mm dia. hole centrally in the newly-fitted pocket floor 1.4mm inbound from the floor edge. Push the tail of the loop into this hole and superglue in place.

Time for a couple of explanatory images I think.

Cheers,

Richard

ps - there's plenty of fun to come - I've just had a look at the LMS style Simplex brake lever arrangement.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Waveydavey » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:00 pm

rdobidston wrote:Time for a couple of explanatory images I think.


Yes please. A picture speaks a thousand words etc....

Cheers

David
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby iak » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:48 pm

I sense a need for the tripod .... 8-)
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:08 pm

iak wrote:I sense a need for the tripod .... 8-)


Yes please Iain - you know I am a talent-free zone when it comes to cameras!

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby iak » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:28 am

Some images were taken last night gents which I hope will allow Richard to explain better.
I just need to run them thru the PC.
If not we'll get some more done asap. 8-)
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby iak » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:20 am

Some images as promised gents

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I hope they show what Richard has been up to 8-)
Last edited by iak on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:30 pm

Hi Folks,

Went down to 'cold comfort clubrooms' today for a modelling session. Dave Millward and I arrived to find the windows fully frosted up on the inside. The temperature was a bracing minus 7 degrees and it took all our radiator fleet on 'Warp Factor 7' to make any impression.

Anyhow, thought I'd spend some time with this little project and, to test my sanity further, had a look at the LMS Simplex brake gear fitted to the prototype I have chosen to model.

see http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p25840576.html
and http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p25840588.html for shots of the prototype

8 hours then elapse......

The result is two small soldered assemblies representing the brake lever and supporting brackets, some singed fingertips and the thought that that's not a lot to show for a day's work.

Rivet- counting? Someone's got to do it !

Images will follow soonest.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby MartinWales » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:37 am

Now that's what I call extreme Railway Modelling, Richard!
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:46 pm

Hi,

[Images will hopefully follow tomorrow and help make my sense of my scribblings]

Some time ago I had bought a Masokits compensated plate frame 5' 6" bogie sub-frame (item 9.05 costs £4.00 per wagon see http://www.scalefour.org/masokits/bogiesuspension.html for details) with a view to trying it out on my bogie plate wagon. OK- so it's not a sprung unit but it's a different take on compensation so worth a go.

The instructions are clear, the unit goes together pretty well although it is certainly more time-consuming than an MJT compensation unit. My main problems with the sub-frame are that you require both metric and imperial drill sizes to make them up and also you need to devise your own way of mounting them to the wagon (if the model you are building, as in this case, is not covered within the instructions).

They certainly seem to work well but I ought to reserve judgement until they've got some mileage under them.

In order to fit them to the wagon I needed confirmation of ride height which in turn required the fitting of buffers. The buffers fitted to some of the prototypes are quite odd (to my eyes at least) but I found some old castings in a spares box that would do as a starting point. The buffer guide was beefed up by supergluing plastic strip onto the underside of the buffer housing and then filing to shape.

The usual 'trial and error' method then produced a need to space the centre of the sub-frame units some 6.7mm off the lower surface of the wagon floor. A combination of Evergreen 0.250" x 0.250" solid section plus a brass washer (supplied with the sub-frame etch) achieved this. The Evergreen block was drilled to take a bolt which will screw into a captive nut superglued into the block (nut and bolt supplied with sub-frame). The wagon was checked through a B8 crossover and ran well.

Finally I decided to stick with the Cambrian kit side frames as opposed to using AME whitemetal plate frame cosmetic side-frames (an old pack of which I had to hand). Although the plastic side frames needed a bit of cleaning up they do have the prominent rivet detail which the AME versions do not have. These were then superglued to the completed sub-frames.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Davef » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:00 pm

Hi Richard, you say in the previous post that the buffers are quite odd, there were a few types of buffer used on these wagons over the years and I've been sent details of one of them, this being the same as used on the Tynedock hopper wagons, they look as though they have a re-enforcing flat along the sides and form a triangular frame looking from the top (actually a complete casting with the buffer guide and base). These buffers were fitted to quite a number of different bogie wagons when built and were eventually replaced with modern hydraulics.

Regards,
Dave F.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:05 pm

Hi dave,

The buffers I'm referring to are shown at

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p25840609.html
http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p25840619.html
http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p25840635.html

Is this the type you have the drawings for?

We plan to have a rake of Boplates at some stage for an aluminium ingot train.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Davef » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:54 pm

Hi Richard, yes that's the very ones. I'll be doing those this year..... I need some too. ;)

Regards,
Dave F.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Clive » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:35 pm

Hi Richard

The same type of buffer was used on LNER boplates and Bogie Bolster Ds as well.
Do you have a copy of Tatlow's "A Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons", on page 93 is a drawing of a Bogie Bolster D showing this buffer and a clear photo of the buffer on the next page.
Clive Mortimore

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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:50 pm

Hi Dave and Clive,

Dave - you can certainly add me to customers for this buffer type :)

Clive - Thanks for the Tatlow reference, I've not done any LNER boplates or bogie bolster Ds so that must be why this buffer type is new to me.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:16 pm

[Apologies again for lack of images - should be later tonight]

Oh boy, Have I got the hots for modelling again - not only has the Mo-Jo returned but he's brought along some friends. :) :) :)

The boplate was giving me the 'come on' signs so it's had the full treatment:-

- axle boxes added to bogie side-frames
- wagon sides added
- previously scratchbuilt simplex brake gear and lever guide fettled and fitted
- footsteps added
- inner lateral trussing added
- plastic transverse trussing supports replaced by brass angle
- door bangers scratchbuilt from nickel silver strip and superglued in place
- central stanchions for wagon sides made from Evergreen strip and fitted
- chain securing loop pockets finished off on outer edges (adding Evergreen strip to complete 'pocket')
- coupling assembly made and added (drawbar pockets = Ambis, drawhooks = Ambis, links = Smiths, instanters = Exactoscale)
- lead weight added (bringing the wagon up to about 75gm) and araldited in position
- patch repairs added as per prototype image (= 5 thou plasticard)

This boplate will become B947363 built by Cambrian in 1957 to Diagram 1/490 under Lot 2930 (as per photograph in the Bartlett et al BR Wagons Vol. 1 book)

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:20 pm

Some images (at last)

Side on view. The model has Ultrascale wheelsets
Image

Top view
Image

End view showing securing ring pocket detail
Image

Scratchbuilt Simplex brake arrangement
Image

View from below
Image

Masokits bogie sub-frame detail
Image

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Cock Sparra » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:05 am

Very Nice. :D
Cheers Phil

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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby iak » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:03 pm

Davef wrote:Hi Richard, yes that's the very ones. I'll be doing those this year..... I need some too. ;)

Regards,
Dave F.


Applause for the man with smashing buffers 8-)
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Davef » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:50 pm

iak wrote:
Davef wrote:Hi Richard, yes that's the very ones. I'll be doing those this year..... I need some too. ;)

Regards,
Dave F.


Applause for the man with smashing buffers 8-)


Aye, it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.... ;)

Just a thought, are those GW buffers on the Boplate?


Dave F.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Dave Millward » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:21 pm

Looks lovely Rich, a worthy addition to our motley collection of wagons!

See you soon

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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby Davef » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:00 pm

Davef wrote:Hi Richard, yes that's the very ones. I'll be doing those this year..... I need some too. ;)

Regards,
Dave F.


And here we are. :)
DSC_0219.jpg

LNE/LMS/BR Boplate E buffer, 1'6'' head
See, I can do it when I set my mind to it....
All the new masters will be in a hand mould this week and if okay will be in a production mould in a few weeks time.
Sooner than expected? I don't want to hold up the Boplates any longer... ;)
I'll post a new list of buffers when I write the suggested uses sheet.

Regards,
Dave F.
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Re: Bogie Plate Wagon (Boplate E) by Cambrian Kits

Postby iak » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Fabbo Dave :drool
Oh I'm going to need more storage boxes now....................... :lol:
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