Wagons for Tor Giffard

Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:02 pm

Aft'noon all,

These Trestrols will form part of the first freight formation build for Tor Giffard, this will be a steel plate working which will also include 2 other trestle types. The trestle wagons look as good empty as loaded and will probably form the empty, up working. The flat plate types will form the down, loaded working. The various plate sections were used for ship building at the Appledore shipyard on the River Torridge and were off-loaded at Barnstaple. Until 1964 this traffic was transhipped at Bideford.

This is a link to a pic of a Trestrol at Barnstaple http://www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/north_d ... taple.html there are images of several other plate carrying types at Barnstaple on this site too.

The 3 Trestrol kits came from The Old Time Workshop and are the old A1 superstructure etches. I've been cautioned to expect major dimensional issues but these aren't apparent when placing the etches over the 4mm diagram in BR Wagons volume one. Cutting the individual parts from the etch I notice an error with the well floor end angle/shape, a over height issue with the well sides and an overall length of wagon side problem but nothing that can't be fixed. The etch detailing is poor and some bits such as handwheels are already heading for the bin. I expect to source various parts from such as Ambis, Dave Franks, Ultrascale and Archer amongst others. Dave Franks has already sent a selection of his buffers for the project, some lovely vacuum pipes and a few coupling parts. I still have a stock of Phil Sutton's exquisite wagon label clips and have ordered bogies from Cambrian. The upward arch of the body of this wagon is an appealing feature but one which is unlikely to be recreated on the model without significant grief and is probably best forgotten about.

Firstly the ends of the two wagon sides were spot soldered together back to back and clamped between a couple of pine cladding offcuts to prevent filing from distorting the delicate etches whilst the overheight well etch detail was filed away, top and bottom. The poorly portrayed anchor rings were snipped off and despatched towards the round filing cabinet. Some of the rivet detail etc is likely to require removal/alteration at this early stage too.

I'll add some pictures and more detail as the work progresses.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: 3 Trestrol plate carrying wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:58 pm

Latest progress is the removal of all rivet detail along the well side of the etches, the overlength side frames have been snipped off between the twin label clip style details at each end, the cut offs will be trimmed to length and then soldered back to back with a brass strengthening piece running between the back of the headstock and the start of the well section. The 2 supplied 'I' section etched beams for the longitudinals in the well are not fit for purpose, therefore sufficient 5mm x 3mm 'I' section has been ordered from Eileens (a 1mm spacer will need adding to the base of the beams to bring the height uo to 6mm) along with sheets of thin nickel silver and brass sheet 1/4, 1/2 and 1mm thick for various tasks on the kits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txVfdR3G ... e=youtu.be

A difficult day with the Trestrols started with observing that a hidden extension to the floor of the model would be necessary due to the well ends being inboard of the floor ends on the prototype. Also, due to the model using the floor and floor to headstock plates as one long piece, it will need to be narrowed by 0.6mm each side between floor and headstock. Even with a new blade in the scrawker this is a painful task and it is almost worth creating a whole new piece from brass sheet. The etched buffer beams are merely a thin flap on the end of the headstock to well top plate and this is covered with too coarse rivet detail, therefore both of these pieces went into the brass offcuts tray and 2 new 32mm buffer beams were cut from 4mm 'U' section brass.

The 5x3mm brass 'I' section and sheet fron Eileens arrived this morning and I set about reducing the 3mm width of the brass to the required 2.5mm using wet & dry abrasive on flat glass. 3mm wide strips of 1mm brass were sliced off the sheet with the disc cutter ready for soldering to the base of the 'I' section to create the 6mm height needed on the model. The 50W soldering iron baulked at heating the two pieces of brass to a temperature where the solder would flow so a quick walk down to the local ironmongers for a more beefy 100W iron was needed. This took a while to get up temperature but made short work of soldering the brass once hot enough. The 'I' section and brass floor sheet assembly will be the backbone of the wagon and certainly looks the part. I separated the brass floor sheet from the floor to headstock sections as it will be a much easier job to take one 1.2mm cut off the width and resolder it to the floor than to try and take 0.6mm off each side.
A package from Cambrian containing 3 types of bogie moulding and 2 Turbot kits (for conversion to bolster E's) arrived this morning and I was pleasantly surprised by the new plastic that they are using for their mouldings...it seems much more capable of fine detail than the previous shiny black type.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: 3 Trestrol plate carrying wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:14 pm

Evenin' all,

What was fast becoming a scratchbuild of 3 Trestrols based on the outdated A1 kit has been upgraded to 3 of the new etched brass/nickel silver kits commissioned by Macgeordie of RM Web parish. The kits arrived today and appear superb in detail and finish.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... gon/page-2

Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:04 pm

Aft'noon all,

Currently on the workbench are two Associated Octel tank scratchbuilds. These Grazebrook bromines will be the most difficult project in this rake for Associated Octel at Hayle mid 60s, with the probable exception of the Fauvet Girel small tanks used in ED traffic at that time), as we have the least reliable dimensional information about them. The F.W. Berk & Octel demountables have caught my eye too. A combination of the basic RSL diagram, various close up images and GA dimensions for other Associated Octel tanks built around the same time has allowed a start to be made. Also, 2ft RIV buffers from Dave Franks are imminent and remove the last reason for not tackling them. The underframe is highly visible at one end of this wagon, therefore more effort in recreating the prototype will go a long way towards the end result.

Here are a few visuals.....

P1010373.JPG

Scan by kind permission of David Ratcliffe

P1010715.JPG


A Tufnol block is ideal for checking flat construction....
P1010723.JPG


P1010725.JPG


The clamp is a Coffmann...http://www.coffmaneng.com/rightclamp/2011rc-order.cfm
available from Branchlines...this the heat resistant one, ideal for holding a workpiece at those awkward angles needed to apply a soldering iron
clamp.PNG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:56 pm

Hi Dave,

Nice to see someone at least making a start on Associated Octel tanks............ I'll watch your work with considerable interest.

As an aside do you know whether the Trestrol kits are still available and, if so, do you have a contact email?

Have just spent a really tiring day with Gavin and Dave F. lugging each of Mostyn's boards outside for a serious meeting with an air-line and vacuum cleaner.

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:38 pm

Aft'noon all,

I've PM'd Macgeordie of RMWeb Rich (the trestrol etch chappie) and asked him to post some details onto this site. I've since found these contact details in my message box

Your friend can email me via iATnmacdonald.co.uk or give me a call on 01484 686780.

Thoroughly enjoyed our recent trip to Anglesey btw....you would have enjoyed the HMRS resource centre at Butterley too. Good to hear of the industry on Mostyn.

The non-verandah end of the Grazebrook bromine tank appears seldom pictured at an angle which allows one to see all of the exposed frame detail. The best two images which I have found are: Wagons of the final years of British Railways (1962-68) P24 by Dave Larkin and the slightly elevated scan shown above by Dave Ratcliffe. This GA part scan by kind permission of Trevor Mann is of the frame end section of a Charles Roberts bromine tank built at a similar time. The main difference between this drawing and the two aforementioned Grazebrook images is that the centre longitudinals continue straight into the rear of the headstock instead of flaring out. The Larkin image suggests that the cross frame strengtheners seen towards the bottom of the drawing scan align approximately with the end of the barrel cradle and that the diagonal frame strengtheners are of a similar length to those in the drawing. There is also a glimpse of some between frame detail but insufficient to model it, so it is probably better to leave the spaces open and add more if/when better close up images emerge

Frame.PNG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:54 am

Aft'noon all,

The joys of scratchbuilding marched on this morning. In the absence of scale drawings for the Grazebrook bromine tank and in an attempt to get the most accurate barrel layout (fixtures & fittings etc) for my models I started with what I knew....namely a works GA drawing for the barrel & fittings on the Charles Roberts bromine tank. This barrel is dimensionally similar to the Grazebrook and following an hour of comparing juxtaposed close up pictures of the complete wagons detail for detail, taking screen measurements of the GA with a ruler from the laptop (as this is a scaled drawing a multiplication factor could be used to determine dimensions not labelled), I realised that the barrel and fittings are highly likely to be standard between the two manufacturers wagons. The centre line for the two main barrel top features is 14.66mm each side of the barrel centre line. See....

Btop.PNG

Part scan repro by kind permission of Trevor Mann

One of the new realisations gained from this mornings efforts is the ratio of barrel end to straight tube section to barrel end. This materialised at 5.9mm/50.86mm/5.9mm in 4mm and it instantly dawned on me that my earlier attempts at barrel ends were considerably too shallow, didn't replicate the scale drawing outline and required too long a straight barrel section to make up the overall length. This made the overall result look wrong when barrel straps were tested against the model as the barrel end joints were in the wrong place.

The lead lining of the prototype barrel and its toxic contents help to explain its limited dimensions and fittings compared with the overall weight spread across two axles.



Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:13 pm

Evenin' all,

This 1970 image at Marazion nr Penzance courtesy of Trevor Mann is a good example of Octel traffic serving Hayle.

M1.PNG

The second and third wagons behind the loco are conflats carrying Octel demountable bromine tanks

The fourth wagon behind the loco is a Grazebrook bromine tank.

The tank nearest the camera is an unfitted Hurst Nelson chlorine in the 1960s livery

The 1972 image below from a currently unknown photographer gives a good impression of the Octel silver grey that was also carried by the Grazebrooks
O1.PNG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:05 pm

Aft'noon all,



A reasonably productive session today has seen two Brassmasters axle-spacing jigs modified for use with Ultrascale wheelsets (the plastic bosses on the back of the wheels prevent an unmodified jig being used).....considerable care and attention req. to ensure that all is square before the two halves were soldered back together....
P1010863.JPG


P1010864.JPG


Pre-production samples of the 2ft RIV buffer arrived today from Dave Franks specifically for these two Grazebrook tanks. The production version will have a smoother finish and more prominent ribs on the back of the buffer head

P1010854.JPG


Bill Bedford heavy duty W irons have been modified to suit the exposed style of underframe on these tanks....a heavier gauge of brass plate was soldered to the underside of the horizontal before a section was sliced out with a disc cutter and all surfaces filed to finish....

P1010855.JPG


....the ride height is close but will probably need a finer gauge of guitar wire in the suspension as well as the weight of the barrel & fittings to get it spot on

P1010856.JPG


....a test fitting of the modified W iron in the frames....not correctly positioned or orientated, simply a test for checking ride height and the idea of modifying the W iron

P1010857.JPG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:02 pm

Aft'noon all,

Every now and then an enlightening image surfaces just in time to avoid commiting to e.g. a livery 'faux pas'. 1960s images of wagons serving Associated Octel at Hayle are related to rocking horse droppings, however, one emerged this morning (from a currently unknown photographer) which shows the earliest livery (so far) of FW Berk bromine demountable tanks serving the plant 1967-69....

Bromine Berk lowfit Hayle Apr 67 to Sept 69 857.PNG


It is hard to find two pictures from this period which show the same livery details...the livery time line of these tanks is diverse. There are two of these Berk demountables (bright yellow by 1971) in this rake https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@ ... 358450067/

Components ordered to match known Lowfits in Berk traffic, ready for this part kit/part scratchbuild route to 2 4mm models

Matching available paint shades to the Berk and Octel silver grey shades will involve trial and error/some blending, thinning etc. A good first attempt arrived today from Phoenix....their dull LNER silver grey looks pretty close to the Octel shade but some experimentation is going to be required.

Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:48 pm

Evenin' all,

Some work with the forming set today creating barrel ends....
http://redroosteruk.com/forming-doming- ... -tool-set/

Slicing & filing to reduce the barrel length to 50.86mm....getting close....
P1010963[1].JPG


One of the plasticard discs filed to fit within the barrel and act as the locating ring for the domed barrel end....
P1010965[1].JPG


A 5.9mm depth barrel end is needed for this model.....
P1010966[1].JPG


Adapting one of the forming blocks for shaping the styrene sandwich using a sundial of sandpaper held in place with Duck tape. The styrene tube acts as a handle when working the piece....
P1010974[1].JPG


Spinning the styrene within the recess quickly recreates the domed shape....
P1010976[1].JPG


Not bad for a first attempt but some work is needed to flatten the nose of the end and a section will need adding to the rear of the end (see GA part scan profile below) so that the transition curves can be created in this area....
P1010978[1].JPG

B endr.PNG

GA part scan courtesy of Trevor Mann

P1010979[1].JPG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:24 pm

Aft'noon all,

A quick pictorial summary of recent progress....

Mandrel mounted with styrene discs ready for forming the gentle outer radius. The mandrel screw head is recessed to avoid getting in the way...
P1020022[1].JPG


The barrel ends were produced using a combination of the sandpaper sundial in forming block technique and fine sandpaper lined French curves. The aluminium strip radii were curved over forming bars. The fine sandpaper is held in place with double sided sticky tape....
P1020024[1].JPG


....magnifying the GA on the laptop screen to the approx. dimensions of the model allows the outline of the barrel end to be used as a template...
P1020036[1].JPG


....one of the barrel top tubes is soldered in place awaiting finish filing to height...the barrel ends need minor sanding at the transition with the barrel....
P1020038[1].JPG


....experiment with 3 piece flanges to the barrel top tubes but I'm not happy and will be substituting a one piece version....
P1020043[1].JPG


Dave
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Richard Oldfield » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:53 pm

Hi Dave,

Nice work!

I'm looking forward to getting back to some wagonry - the last few weeks have been focussed on modelling outside the railway fence (not my greatest interest).

Hopefully you will see some changes when we meet up at Barrowmore on Thursday.

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: Wagons for Tor Giffard

Postby Dave Millward » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:51 pm

Evenin' all,

The barrel top features on this model will obviously be the most viewed area...therefore capturing the character of the dome cover/frame and walkway is essential for success. Today has seen an attempt started at the dome/frame...plenty of work to do but I'm reasonably pleased so far....

....the frame starts out as brass rod which bent into shape as per dimensions from the GA. Each side of the frame is then hammered flat on the anvil from the kit to recreate the prototype appearance. The holes for the rungs are then marked/drilled on each side...
P1020085.JPG


Fill valves and dome cover.PNG

GA part scan courtesy of Trevor Mann

P1020086.JPG


The pictures are posed...the dome is not ready to be attached to the frame yet.

Looking forward to Thursday & Friday Rich

Dave
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