BR-built Fish Vans

BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:56 pm

Hi,

It is really much too cold to venture out to our clubrooms and do some modelling so I'm compensating by preparing some notes on future projects. You just cannot have too much parcels stock and so my thoughts have drifted to the BR-built fish vans and their later use for parcels and other traffic.

Prototype inspiration?

Courtesy of John Dixon, here's 25.290 at Saltney in November 1979 with three ex-Fish vans in tow:-

Image

and a photograph from David Goodwin's collection (which I have used before on Fred) showing a van in probable departmental use:-

Image

For Mostyn the first job is to check out what was built and then what survived until our time-setting of mid-1977.

More to follow.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby MartinWales » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:04 am

Some REALLY nice shots there Richard! Any more where they came from?
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:02 am

Hi Martin,

MartinWales wrote:Some REALLY nice shots there Richard! Any more where they came from?


There are a limited number more from the 1970s but David Goodwin really started recording stuff at Chester from the mid-1980s. Anything in particular you are looking for?

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:13 pm

Hi,

A good starting place to understand BR Fish Vans is to get hold of an article by John Emerson titled 'Natural Selection' which appeared on pages 42-45 of the December 2000 BRM. Amongst other things, the article contains a useful bibliography for those wanting to go into more detail.

At this stage it is sufficient for me to know what was built and how the designs were related.

1. BR built 600 wagons to LNER Diagram 214 in 1949-50 - E75000-75599

Five years later the LNER Diagram was slightly modified to produce the first BR Diagram:-

2. BR built 500 wagons to BR Diagram 800 in 1954-55 - E87000-87499

Another five years passes and BR Diagram 801 emerges, clearly from the same family as Dia.214/Dia.800 but with considerable detail differences:-

3. BR built 558 wagons in 3 Lots to Diagram 801 in 1959-61 - E87500-88057

Given that Mostyn is set in 1977, how did the fish van fleet fare in the intervening time?

Well, the traffic for which they were intended disappeared but not before a large number of the Dia. 800 vans had been upgraded by fitting roller bearings. The Dia. 214 vans had all been withdrawn (unless anyone can point me in the direction of a late survivor?), the Dia.800 fleet had been decimated and even the later Dia. 801 vans were disappearing fast.

The RCTS 1978 coaching stock book (giving the position as at the end of 1977) lists 162 surviving Dia.800/801 vans which had been converted to Special Parcels Vans (SPV). The RCTS notes that some insulated fish vans remained in service, particularly in departmental stock and that some converted SPVs had also been cascaded to departmental stock. I dont know of any means to identify the number of vans in these categories.

The 162 vans listed by the RCTS 1978 book break down into 13 Dia.800 vans and 149 Dia.801 vans.

What do the pictures in the opening post show? - more to come

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Tappa » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Hi Richard - Pete Johnson scratchbuilt a batch of BR fish vans and I seem to remember them being featured on Kier Hardy's website.

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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:26 pm

Hi Jeff,

Tappa wrote:Hi Richard - Pete Johnson scratchbuilt a batch of BR fish vans and I seem to remember them being featured on Kier Hardy's website.


You've clearly spotted the challenge of modelling the SPVs in 1977 then :D
I could only find a couple of finished images on Kier Hardy's site but Pete has always been helpful in the past so an e-mail will be winging his way.
Thanks for the tip.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby stuartfwlr » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:41 pm

Richard Oldfield wrote:What do the pictures in the opening post show? - more to come


"is there is something fishy going on here" hehe :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am looking forward to seeing progress on this project. Is IAK not working on one of these in his workshop?
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:55 pm

Hi Stuart,
stuartfwlr wrote: Is IAK not working on one of these in his workshop?


Yes, The first SPV on Mostyn will be a Dia.800 example which Iain is showcasing in his workshop area on Fred. I'm going to have a dabble with the later Dia.801 vans.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:25 pm

Hi,

This is a quick posting to resurrect this topic in view of the impending launch of a Dia. 1/801 SPV kit from Rumney Models.

See http://www.rumneymodels.co.uk/3.html for more information.

Cheers,
Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby iak » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am

Better get the Dia. 800 finshed then....... :o
So much to do, la la la! :face: :scratch :lol:
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:46 pm

Hi,

This project has hit the buffers so to speak. I was hoping for big things from the Rumney Models 1/800 launch and prepared to dive in with an order for ten for Mostyn.

The launch price, however, at £38 per kit doesn't sit easily with me - especially given the extra components you then need to buy in order to get a complete two-axle van. I might just be a bit out of touch with prices generally but, there again, I have recently bought Trestrol kits and Flatrol kits from Ian Macdonald and they seem much better value.

Cheers,

Richard
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Scottish Modeller » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:25 pm

Richard Oldfield wrote:Hi,

This project has hit the buffers so to speak. I was hoping for big things from the Rumney Models 1/800 launch and prepared to dive in with an order for ten for Mostyn.

The launch price, however, at £38 per kit doesn't sit easily with me - especially given the extra components you then need to buy in order to get a complete two-axle van. I might just be a bit out of touch with prices generally but, there again, I have recently bought Trestrol kits and Flatrol kits from Ian Macdonald and they seem much better value.

Cheers,

Richard

Hi Richard,

You are not alone in this...

I was also waiting to see what the Rumney Models one was like before committing to the building of at least 10 for one of the Scottish Modellers layouts.

Alan@York bought one to see what it was like and is building it to P4, got all the extra bits and it left him with little change out £50.00.

He will be putting an article into Update in the near future!

With his experience in mind, we are not going this way with the SPV's we need for the Scottish Modellers layout, we reckoned we needed about 10 to 12 and we do not have the budget to do it!

So - we are looking at older/cheaper ways to produce 1/800 variant.

Thanks
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Re: BR-built Fish Vans

Postby Richard Oldfield » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:23 am

Hi Phil,

I did speak to Justin Newitt of Rumney Models at ExpoEM North in September when I reasonably raised the question of the prospects of a fair discount in return for a volume purchase. I thought he had understood my point (and was willing to be flexible). However, having been appraised of the content of an email he subsequently sent to another member of our group (who was with me on the day), I gather that he felt 'insulted' by my approach.

And, by the way, I do not negotiate just for the sake of it - if a price is good I will simply send off my order.

For now, I have simply turned my attention to other projects.

Cheers,

Richard
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